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Re: Alternative time clock scheme



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Re: Alternative time clock scheme

Guy Macon26 Mar 2008 01:58
>> There is also Kasparov delay, which doesn't add time, but
>> doesn't count time for X seconds.  Phil Innes
>
>Why would you attribute that method to Kasparov?

For the same reason he calls Turing machines "Turing engines"?

The Kasparov delay does exist, but has only been used once, on
the 26th move of game 2 of the 1987 Karpov vs. Kasparov title
match.  It never really caught on, and even Kasparov himself
avoided it after that one experiment.

>It's the USCF standard, and has been so since the early 90s.
>There are essentially three "delay" methods. The USCF ("time delay")
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>time. The "Fischer" method is the same as Bronstein, except that your
>time can accumulate without limit.

Please read the following URLs:
http://www.dgtprojects.com/clock_timingmethods.htm#bronstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_clock#Delay_clocks

If you disagree with them please provide your sources.

>If you want to argue about the names, go ahead (though I
>don't plan to listen)

You should care whether Bronstein gets credit for what Bronstein
invented and whether Fischer gets credit for what Fischer invented.

(And I should have checked before my original post rather than
going by memory...)

jkh001@aim.com25 Mar 2008 23:26
> >>> For comparison, let's start with a 40/120, D/60 time control with a
> >>> USCF-Style delay of 5 seconds.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> > or reset multiple times.  Got the bird into orbit at the end,
> > though!

Why would you attribute that method to Kasparov? It's the USCF
standard, and has been so since the early 90s.

There are essentially three "delay" methods. The USCF ("time delay")
doesn't start the clock for x seconds after the button has been
pushed. The "Bronstein" method starts counting down immediately, but
adds x seconds when you stop your clock, up to a max of the time you
had when you clock started. The effect is _almost_ identical to the
first, though there is a tiny difference if you are very short of
time. The "Fischer" method is the same as Bronstein, except that your
time can accumulate without limit. If you want to argue about the
names, go ahead (though I don't plan to listen), but these are the
options available if you want to design a new time control.

Chess One25 Mar 2008 23:05
>>> For comparison, let's start with a 40/120, D/60 time control with a
>>> USCF-Style delay of 5 seconds.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the three major methods (Fischer, Bronstein, FIDE) and somehow
> managed to insert the term "USCF" in there.  Sorry about that.

4. There is also Kasparov delay, which doesn't add time, but doesn't count
time for X seconds.  Phil Innes

> http://www.dgtprojects.com/clock_timingmethods.htm#bronstein
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> or reset multiple times.  Got the bird into orbit at the end,
> though!

Guy Macon25 Mar 2008 09:56
>> For comparison, let's start with a 40/120, D/60 time control with a
>> USCF-Style delay of 5 seconds.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Your `USCF-style delay' is usually credited to David Bronstein, rather
>than the USCF.

You are correct.  I apologize; in my haste I mentally confused
the three major methods (Fischer, Bronstein, FIDE) and somehow
managed to insert the term "USCF" in there.  Sorry about that.

http://www.dgtprojects.com/clock_timingmethods.htm#bronstein

>> Now replace the 40/120, D/60 with SD/10 or SD/20, but with the
>> Fischer delay set to 3 minutes.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>At work, I don't have time for six-hour games of chess!  

I once did nothing but play chess for over a week while sitting
in the bunker next to a launchpad as the countdown got stopped
or reset multiple times.  Got the bird into orbit at the end,
though!

David Richerby25 Mar 2008 08:44
> For comparison, let's start with a 40/120, D/60 time control with a
> USCF-Style delay of 5 seconds.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> difference being that with a Fischer delay you can gain time by
> moving quickly).

Your `USCF-style delay' is usually credited to David Bronstein, rather
than the USCF.

> Now replace the 40/120, D/60 with SD/10 or SD/20, but with the
> Fischer delay set to 3 minutes.

Are people not already doing this?  Starting with only twenty minutes
on the clock seems a bit short for serious games, even with a
three-minute increment, but the basic idea is very sound.

> This, of course, wouldn't make matches end by the next round, but
> when playing a club game or a game at work, it would avoid the
> rather artificial "race until the time control changes then relax"
> effect.

At work, I don't have time for six-hour games of chess!  

Dave.

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Guy Macon25 Mar 2008 02:13
I am not saying this is a good idea as it stands,
but rather I am throwing it out there as a thought
experiment to see if someone comes up with a better
variation.

For comparison, let's start with a 40/120, D/60 time
control with a USCF-Style delay of 5 seconds.

Replace the USCF-style the delay with a Fischer increment
(meaning 5 seconds are added to your clock when you hit
the button rather than the clock waiting 5 seconds
before starting to count down -- the difference being
that with a Fischer delay you can gain time by moving
quickly).

Now replace the 40/120, D/60 with SD/10 or SD/20, but
with the Fischer delay set to 3 minutes.

This, of course, wouldn't make matches end by the next
round, but when playing a club game or a game at work,
it would avoid the rather artificial "race until the
time control changes then relax" effect.

Signature

Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/>


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