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Re: Checkers is solved -Guy Macon



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Re: Checkers is solved -Guy Macon

David Kane24 Jul 2007 16:59
>>, but the
>> |unfinished match against Dr. Tinsley left lingering doubt whether
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> 156 out of 156 UNLESS they have not really
> solved checkers completely?

Because you can force a draw without reaching
the positions that they haven't calculated.

> seem to explain the strange comments posted
> here earlier, which suggested the same thing by
> misusing the term solved to mean partly-solved.

In traditional checkers, also called
Go As You Please (GAYP), any
legal move is possible. The version of
the game that starts from one of 156
positions selected at random and has
not (yet) been solved. In fact, the
openings contained in the proof are
not the best in practical play.

>  I think the conclusion is that these guys are
> confident that no human or computer will ever
> beat their machine from now on, and are moving
> on, satisfied with less than perfection.

No. Checkers has been understood to
be a draw for at least a century, and computers
have been unbeatable for ~10. What has been
done here is to document the path from starting
position to draw. So GAYP is a proven draw.

help bot23 Jul 2007 23:18
> >> They wouldn't be publishing partial results in _Science_ under the
> >> title ``Checkers is Solved.''
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> [http://www.google.com/search?q=Checkers+science+magazine]
> brings you right to it:

 Er, no it doesn't!  That search yields nearly 1.5 million
hits from which to choose.  LOL!

> |The game of checkers has roughly 500 billion billion

 Uh, this should I think be 500 quadrillion, not any
"billion billion" or "million million million", etc.  :>D

> possible
> |positions (5 x 1020). The task of solving the game, determining
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> |both sides leads to a draw. This is the most challenging popular
> |game to be solved to date,

 Another item posted here put that as "problem",
rather than "game" -- a gigantic difference.  --Ed.

> roughly one million times more complex
> |than Connect Four. Artificial intelligence technology has been
> |used to generate strong heuristic-based game-playing programs,
> |such as DEEP BLUE for chess. Solving a game takes this to the
> |next level, by replacing the heuristics with perfection.

> |In essence, that reduces checkers to the level of tic-tac-toe, for
> |which the ideal game-playing strategy has been codified into an
> |immutable strategy. But checkers -- or draughts, as it is known in
> |Britain -- is the most complex game that has been solved to date, with
> |some 500 billion billion possible board positions, compared with the
> |765 possibilities in tic-tac-toe.

 Note how the rough guesstimate numbers yield a
distinct impression of approximation, not "perfection".

> |Even with the advances in computers over the past two decades, it is
> |still impossible, in practical terms, to compute moves for all 500
> |billion billion board positions. So, the researchers took the usual
> |starting position and looked only at the positions that occurred
> |during play.

 Unclear.  Does this imply they examined only
checkers positions which occurred in tournament
play between checkers masters, or all legally
possible checkers positions which can be reached
via a sequence of legal moves?

> |"It's a computational proof," said Jonathan Schaeffer, a professor of
> |computer science at the University of Alberta who led the effort.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> |to be restarted from that point. A checkers hobbyist has independently
> |verified major components of the proof with another computer program.

 Note how the "hobbyist" goes unnamed, as does
his program and just about anything anybody might
want to know in order to verify if these claims are
truly airtight.  Coincidence?  Maybe... .

> |Dr. Schaeffer began his quest in 1989, aiming to write software that
> |could compete with top checkers players in the world. In April, 18
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> |perfect Chinook athttp://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~chinook/play/. (It is
> |limited to 24 games at a time.)

 That's okay.  I generally play no more than nineteen or
twenty checkers games at a time myself.  ;>D

> |Dr. Tinsley won, 4 to 2 with 33 draws. Chinook's two wins were only
> |the sixth and seventh losses for Dr. Tinsley since 1950. In a rematch
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> |
> |Chinook easily triumphed over other human challengers

 (...if you look over all the draws...)

>, but the
> |unfinished match against Dr. Tinsley left lingering doubt whether
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> |researchers have also solved 21 of the 156 three-move openings,
> |leaving some hope for humans.

 There it is.  How on earth can it be possible to
solve 21 out of 156 checkers openings instead of
156 out of 156 UNLESS they have not really
solved checkers completely?  This also would
seem to explain the strange comments posted
here earlier, which suggested the same thing by
misusing the term solved to mean partly-solved.

 I think the conclusion is that these guys are
confident that no human or computer will ever
beat their machine from now on, and are moving
on, satisfied with less than perfection.

 -- help bot

Guy Macon23 Jul 2007 20:10
Note: This post contains information posted on the web by
magazines and newspapers and thus likely to go away soon,
So I reproduced the text here as an archive and added a tag
to the subject line to make it easy to find.

help bot wrote:

>David Richerby wrote:
>
>> They wouldn't be publishing partial results in _Science_ under the
>> title ``Checkers is Solved.''
>
> As I have not seen that magazine, I have no idea
>whether or not "they" (whoever they are) would likely
>place such an article under such a name.

The obvious google search [ checkers science magazine ]
[ http://www.google.com/search?q=Checkers+science+magazine ]
brings you right to it:  

-------------------------------------------------------

|ABSTRACT
|
|Published Online July 19, 2007
|Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1144079
|Submitted on April 20, 2007
|Accepted on July 6, 2007
|
|Checkers Is Solved
|Jonathan Schaeffer, Neil Burch, Yngvi Bjoson,
|Akihiro Kishimoto, Martin Mu1ler, Robert Lake,
|Paul Lu, Steve Sutphen
|
|1 Department of Computing Science, University of Alberta,
| Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2E8, Canada.
|
|* To whom correspondence should be addressed.
|Jonathan Schaeffer , E-mail: jonathan{at}cs.ualberta.ca
|  
|The game of checkers has roughly 500 billion billion possible
|positions (5 x 1020). The task of solving the game, determining
|the final result in a game with no mistakes made by either player,
|is daunting. Since 1989, almost continuously, dozens of computers
|have been working on solving checkers, applying state-of-the-art
|artificial intelligence techniques to the proving process. This
|paper announces that checkers is now solved: perfect play by
|both sides leads to a draw. This is the most challenging popular
|game to be solved to date, roughly one million times more complex
|than Connect Four. Artificial intelligence technology has been
|used to generate strong heuristic-based game-playing programs,
|such as DEEP BLUE for chess. Solving a game takes this to the
|next level, by replacing the heuristics with perfection.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1144079

-------------------------------------------------------
|    
|News of the Week
|Science 20 July 2007:
|Vol. 317. no. 5836, pp. 308 - 309
|DOI: 10.1126/science.317.5836.308a
|
|COMPUTER SCIENCE:
|Program Proves That Checkers, Perfectly Played, Is a No-Win
|Situation
|
|Adrian Cho
|
|If two players face off at checkers and neither makes a wrong
|move, then the game will inevitably end in a draw. That's the
|result of a proof executed by hundreds of computers over nearly
|2 decades and reported online by Science this week

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/317/5836/308a

-------------------------------------------------------
I also found these:

| NEW YORK TIMES
|
|Champion at Checkers That Cannot Lose to People
|By KENNETH CHANG
|Published: July 20, 2007
|
|Checkers has been solved.
|
|A computer program named Chinook vanquished its human competitors at
|tournaments more than a decade ago. But now, in an article published
|Thursday on the Web site of the journal Science, the scientists at the
|University of Alberta who developed the program report that they have
|rigorously proved that Chinook, in a slightly improved version, cannot
|ever lose. Any opponent, human or computer, no matter how skilled, can
|at best achieve a draw.
|
|In essence, that reduces checkers to the level of tic-tac-toe, for
|which the ideal game-playing strategy has been codified into an
|immutable strategy. But checkers -- or draughts, as it is known in
|Britain -- is the most complex game that has been solved to date, with
|some 500 billion billion possible board positions, compared with the
|765 possibilities in tic-tac-toe.
|
|Even with the advances in computers over the past two decades, it is
|still impossible, in practical terms, to compute moves for all 500
|billion billion board positions. So, the researchers took the usual
|starting position and looked only at the positions that occurred
|during play.
|
|"It's a computational proof," said Jonathan Schaeffer, a professor of
|computer science at the University of Alberta who led the effort.
|"It's certainly not a formal mathematical proof." That means it is
|impossible for anyone to check every calculation the computer has
|performed.
|
|Because of the vast calculations, the researchers had to keep
|painstaking track of the data. Miscopying a single bit -- a glitch that
|did occur every few months -- could render their result incorrect if
|not caught and corrected. When an error was caught, calculations had
|to be restarted from that point. A checkers hobbyist has independently
|verified major components of the proof with another computer program.
|
|Dr. Schaeffer began his quest in 1989, aiming to write software that
|could compete with top checkers players in the world. In April, 18
|years later, he and his colleagues finished their computations.
|
|"From my point of view, thank God it's over," Dr. Schaeffer said.
|
|For an exercise in futility, anyone can play a game against the
|perfect Chinook at http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~chinook/play/. (It is
|limited to 24 games at a time.)
|
|The earlier incarnation of Chinook, relying on artificial intelligence
|techniques and the combined computing power of many computers, placed
|second in the 1990 United States championship behind Marion Tinsley,
|the world champion, who had won every tournament he had played in
|since 1950.
|
|That achievement should have earned Chinook the right to challenge Dr.
|Tinsley, a professor of mathematics at Florida A&M University, for the
|world championship, but the American Checkers Federation and the
|English Draughts Association refused to sanction a match. After much
|wrangling in the checkers world, Dr. Tinsley and Chinook battled for
|the man-versus-machine checkers title in 1992.
|
|Dr. Tinsley won, 4 to 2 with 33 draws. Chinook's two wins were only
|the sixth and seventh losses for Dr. Tinsley since 1950. In a rematch
|two years later, Dr. Tinsley withdrew after six draws, citing health
|reasons. Cancer was diagnosed, and Dr. Tinsley died seven months
|later.
|
|Chinook easily triumphed over other human challengers, but the
|unfinished match against Dr. Tinsley left lingering doubt whether
|Chinook could claim to be the best of all time.
|
|The new research proves that Chinook is invincible in traditional
|checkers. In most tournament play, however, a match now starts with
|three moves chosen at random. In solving the traditional game, the
|researchers have also solved 21 of the 156 three-move openings,
|leaving some hope for humans.
|
|Alexander Moiseyev, the current world champion in what is known as
|three-move checkers, has never faced Chinook. He said he used
|computers to study and analyze games but did not play against them,
|and he readily conceded that people were no longer worthy competitors
|for computers.
|
|"This time is over today," he said. "It doesn't bother me." The next
|game Dr. Schaeffer hopes to conquer is poker, which is harder to
|solve, because players do not have complete knowledge of their
|opponents' positions. Next week, his program, Polaris, will take on
|two professional poker players in Texas Hold 'Em for the $50,000
|man-versus-machine world championship.
|
|Soon, computers may not just be winning games, but taking people's
|money, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/science/20checkers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

-------------------------------------------------------

|INFORMATION WEEK
|Canadian Programmers Claim Their Checkers Program Is Unbeatable
|
|Software developers at the University of Alberta say they've 'solved'
|checkers by developing a program that's guaranteed to never lose.
|
|By K.C. Jones
|InformationWeek
|July 20, 2007 11:58 AM
|
|Software developers in the department of computing at the University
|of Alberta say they've perfected a checkers program so powerful that
|human competitors can never win.
|
|The developers said the best players can do against the improved and
|"unbeatable" Chinook is to end the game in a tie.
|
|"Checkers is solved," they pronounced in a statement on their Web
|site.
|
|From the starting position, black (which moves first) can only draw
|against a perfect opponent, and white (which moves second) is also
|guaranteed a draw, regardless of what black plays as the opening move,
|developers said.
|
|"This is the largest non-trivial game of skill to be solved," the
|developers said. "It is more than one million times bigger than
|Connect Four and Awari."
|
|Connect Four and Awari were the biggest and most complex games solved
|before Chinook became unbeatable at traditional checkers, called
|draughts in England. A traditional game of checkers allows for
|three-move openings and about 500 billion total board positions for
|the duration of the game. The developers' claims come from a computer
|proof, not a mathematical one.
|
|Developers began work on the Chinook program in 1989 in an attempt to
|build a program that could beat the human World Checkers Champion.
|Chinook suffered a narrow loss to the world checkers champion in 1992,
|but limited the champion to draws in 1994. Two years later, Chinook
|proved stronger than people and retired. Chinook won the World
|Man-Machine Championship, three years before the Deep Blue chess
|match, marking a milestone in the history of artificial intelligence.
|
|Those who want to challenge Chinook can test their mettle online.

http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201200179

-------------------------------------------------------

>Interesting.  This "strategy" was never mentioned in
>the article I read; that article stated flatly that the
>"scientists" were moving on, having settled on a
>partial solving of checkers, and placing the blame
>for their partial failure on a lack of computer power.

All I can say is that the sources quoted above seem to be
authoritative.

Signature

Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/>


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