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Re: Who are the Greats?
| The Historian | 11 Mar 2010 15:56 |
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:21:39 -0800 (PST), Taylor Kingston > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > to games with the results of the same operation on a contemporary > event ? Carlsbad 1913, I think. And it was Nunn. Richard Forster had a response at Chess Cafe debunking much, if not all, of Nunn's conclusions. For example, Nunn bashed the tournament book author (Vidmar?) for missing things, and then went on to discuss how he used Fritz to analyze the games. Forster commented "Why didn't Vidmar think of that?"
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| MikeMurray | 11 Mar 2010 15:26 |
> Rubinstein seems a strange case to me. Certainly he played great >games, won major tournaments, and had a deep understanding of chess. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >others' games would be required to determine if this impression was >based on fact or just a skewed, too-small sample. Didn't a current GM (I think it might have been Nunn) make such a systematic survey, but at a tournament level, taking one famous top-class event early in the twentieth century and running a Fritz blunder check on all the games, then comparing the ratio of blunders to games with the results of the same operation on a contemporary event ?
It should be possible to perform a similar operation on the mature Rubenstein or most other well-known players using one of huge databases you get with Fritz or Aquarium. In fact, you could rank players by the ratio of blunders per game.
For our purposes, how would you define "tactical error" -- one that drops 2 pawns in the evaluation? Or some higher number?
Some factors that might screw up the results: a player might blunder more in weak events, or in games subsequent to a well-played loss. Some players might get more accurate in "money" games. And, if the blunder ratio increases with age, you'd have to define a cut-off point so as not to unfairly penalize some players for simply living longer and competing while doing it.
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| Taylor Kingston | 11 Mar 2010 14:21 |
> Bogo was at one point, according to chessmetrics, world number one:http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S... He certainly had great success circa 1922-1928, though he was rather erratic.
> In MGP 1 Kasparov rated Rubinstein very highly. Rubinstein seems a strange case to me. Certainly he played great games, won major tournaments, and had a deep understanding of chess. Still, in playing over his games, I have found an unusually high number of tactical errors that somehow went unpunished by his opponents, and unnoticed by later annotators. Admittedly this was an unsystematic survey, but my impression was that his frequency of error was signficantly higher than for other comparable GMs; he just somehow lucked out and nobody noticed. A careful, extensive, time-consuming comparative analysis of his and others' games would be required to determine if this impression was based on fact or just a skewed, too-small sample.
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| Offramp | 11 Mar 2010 03:44 |
> Who are the 30 best chess players of all time? > f.ck knows. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and > Bogoljuboff Bogo was at one point, according to chessmetrics, world number one: http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S01387900000 0111000000000000010100 I can't believe I left out Morphy. Also Fine - he must definitely go in although he is a long way from being my favourite player. Bronstein and Geller also. Carlsen and that old git Topalov; Ivanchuk. Out go Short, Mason, Junge, Schlechter, Marshall, Larsen, Zukertort. I would not include Khalifman, Ponomariov and Kasimdzhanov. In MGP 1 Kasparov rated Rubinstein very highly.
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| Offramp | 10 Mar 2010 21:48 |
Who are the 30 best chess players of all time? f.ck knows. I would have the World Champions plus: Reshevsky Larsen Rubinstein Schlechter Short Chigorin Zuckertort Mason Pillsbury Marshall Junge Keres Kortschnoi Tarrasch and Bogoljuboff
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