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GREAT PLAYER "Bobby Pfuscher" won Advance Level.

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Sanny - 29 Aug 2006 06:17 GMT
Today Some great Player came to GetClub site and beated even its
"Advance Level".

I do not know whether it really was "Bobby Fischer"

But 2 things why he is a great player.

1. He beat the "Advance Level" in just 35 Moves. While even "Master
Level" needs 40+ Moves to be beaten by top players.

2. He started playing with "Advance Level". Means he is really a great
Player. May be better than Taylor Kingston. May be he is "Bobby
Fischer" with different username "Bobby Pfuscher"

However he only Played one Game his rating is still very low.

Here is the Ranking for Players Competing at GetClub for This MONTH
(AUGUST).

Nomorechess : Points Awarded 53.8  ~ $5.00
Taylor Kingston : Points Awarded 37 ~ $2.00
Richerby : Points Awarded 27 ~ $1.00
Bob : Points Awarded 17 ~ $1.00
Bonsai : Points Awarded 10.6 ~ $1.00

If in 3 days the Ranking is not Changed then The winner for this month
will be again Nomorechess. beating Taylor Kingston for second time.
However Taylor Kingston still has highest Rating Based on all games
played by him.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
likesforests@yahoo.com - 29 Aug 2006 06:47 GMT
> Today Some great Player came to GetClub site and beated even its
> "Advance Level".

Here's the game in case anyone's curious:

[Date "2006.08.28"]
[White "Sanny"]
[Black "Bobby Pfuscher"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. Nc3 Qa5 7.
Bd3 g6 8. Bd2 Bg7 9. Qf3 Rb8 10. Nb5 Qd8 11. Nxa7 Rxb2 12. Nxc8 Qxc8
13. e5 Nd5 14. c4 Nb4 15. Bxb4 Rxb4 16. Qe3 Qb8 17. f4 O-O 18. O-O-O d6
19. Qe4 dxe5 20. Rhe1 exf4 21. Qxe7 Rb1+ 22. Kd2 Qb2+ 23. Bc2 Qc3+ 24.
Ke2 Qxc2+ 25. Rd2 Rxe1+ 26. Kxe1 Bc3 27. Qd6 Re8+ 28. Kf2 Qxd2+ 29.
Qxd2 Bxd2 30. h3 Ra8 31. a3 Rxa3 32. Ke2 Be3 33. Kf3 f5 34. g4 Ra2 35.
c5 Rf2#

> I do not know whether it really was "Bobby Fischer"

It was not.
Sanny - 29 Aug 2006 07:06 GMT
> [Date "2006.08.28"]
> [White "Sanny"]
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Qxd2 Bxd2 30. h3 Ra8 31. a3 Rxa3 32. Ke2 Be3 33. Kf3 f5 34. g4 Ra2 35.
> c5 Rf2#

Can someone Analyze this Game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot - 30 Aug 2006 05:51 GMT
> > [Date "2006.08.28"]
> > [White "Sanny"]
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Can someone Analyze this Game.

 Someone familiar with all Sicilian theory could probably
point out the very first mistake, but I can tell you that
castling Queenside in this kind of position is suicide.
The entire second half of this game was just mop-up.

 -- help bot
Sanny - 30 Aug 2006 09:59 GMT
>   Someone familiar with all Sicilian theory could probably
> point out the very first mistake, but I can tell you that
> castling Queenside in this kind of position is suicide.
> The entire second half of this game was just mop-up.

Problem Rectified, Now it will not Chastle Queenside when there is
attack on Queenside.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot - 29 Aug 2006 07:14 GMT
> Today Some great Player came to GetClub site and beated even its
> "Advance Level".
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 1. He beat the "Advance Level" in just 35 Moves. While even "Master
> Level" needs 40+ Moves to be beaten by top players.

 In fact, I have beaten the Advance level in far fewer moves
that this, though not consistently.  Going backwards, the
last time I played the Advance level was the game I drew
after hanging a piece.  Yet in the game just prior to that one
I mated your program on move 33 -- two moves quicker
than Pfuscher.  At one point, I was miniaturizing the program
on several levels in a significant portion of my games.

> 2. He started playing with "Advance Level". Means he is really a great
> Player. May be better than Taylor Kingston. May be he is "Bobby
> Fischer" with different username "Bobby Pfuscher"

 And maybe he is just some guy using a computer program,
like Bob.

> However he only Played one Game his rating is still very low.

 One reason it is so low is that I have pummelled the
Advance level such that its current rating is well below
1000.   So beating a 900-something in one game nets
Pfuscher a 1010 rating.

> Here is the Ranking for Players Competing at GetClub for This MONTH
> (AUGUST).
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> However Taylor Kingston still has highest Rating Based on all games
> played by him.

 Taylor Kingston started playing the program back when
it had higher ratings, ratings closer to 1000.  Every player
who started later on has a slight handicap, as the program
kept dropping lower and lower as he and others beat it to
a pulp.
 At some point, a change was incorporated so that players
could no longer avoid losing a game by simply disconnecting.
At this point, it is possible that the program began to regain
some lost ground, by forcing players to finish lost games
before starting another.
 Also, IMO the program is moving faster than before, and
this speed has been constantly changing over time, almost
at random.  Another thing which apparently has changed
over time is the program's strength, which is still improving.
 Another reason for Taylor Kingston having the highest
rating at GetClub is the fact that he is the only player with
a significant number of games to have never lost a single
game.

 "But then, he hasn't played *me*."  -- Bobby Pfuscher

 -- help bot
Sanny - 30 Aug 2006 05:46 GMT
>   In fact, I have beaten the Advance level in far fewer moves
> that this, though not consistently.  Going backwards, the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> than Pfuscher.  At one point, I was miniaturizing the program
> on several levels in a significant portion of my games.

When you and Taylor Kinston beat the Advance Level it was having many
Bugs. "Bobby Pfuscher" beat Advance Level after all Bugs were removed.

In a game if there is even one wrong move opponent can easily win. So
when you and Taylor Kingston won that was having a bug So I was not
much surprised.

But "Bobby Pfuscher" yesterday beat "Advance Level" in 35 Moves and
Later beat "Master Level" in just 28 moves. While others need 40-50
moves to beat Master Level.

"Bobby Pfuscher" plays even better than Bob and Taylor Kingston. Next
Month I feel "Bobby Pfuscher" will be at the TOP beating each one of
you.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
help bot - 30 Aug 2006 06:20 GMT
> >   In fact, I have beaten the Advance level in far fewer moves
> > that this, though not consistently.  Going backwards, the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> When you and Taylor Kinston beat the Advance Level it was having many
> Bugs. "Bobby Pfuscher" beat Advance Level after all Bugs were removed.

 Sanny, your program has *always* had bugs, and may very well
continue in the same vein.  Saying that now all such bugs have
been removed, is nonsense.  The only thing which has changed
is that now the program appears to be looking deeper, much
deeper than before.  I am going by the number on the screen,
which appears to represent the depth of search, in plys.  I have
noticed the program *sometimes* looking as deep as 11 plys
in simple endings.  This never happenned before.  The speed
and depth has improved considerably.

> In a game if there is even one wrong move opponent can easily win. So
> when you and Taylor Kingston won that was having a bug So I was not
> much surprised.

 Really?  You sang a different tune back then, claiming each
win was due to a bug, which you then removed.  Unfortunately,
the supply of new bugs never seems to run out.

> But "Bobby Pfuscher" yesterday beat "Advance Level" in 35 Moves and
> Later beat "Master Level" in just 28 moves. While others need 40-50
> moves to beat Master Level.

 The exact number of moves to enforce checkmate (your
program does not resign, even down a Queen) is irrelevant
to a player's strength.  In fact, any player using a computer
to play yours will in all likelihood win quicker than a strong
human player.  It's a question of style, not strength.  Using
an aggressive, risky style can lead to quick wins, while
playing precisely as Tigram Petrosian might have played,
can lead to very long games, even if a decisive advantage
is obtained early on.

> "Bobby Pfuscher" plays even better than Bob and Taylor Kingston.

 Nonsense.  Bob's computer may well be just as strong or
perhaps even stronger than Pfuscher's.  There is no way to
tell except by having them face strong opposition (which
isn't likely to happen at GetClub.com for a while yet).

 I have known quite strong chess players who nonetheless,
enjoyed playing one program against another like this, and
who basked in victory even when they knew in advance that
one program was far stronger than the other.

> Next Month I feel "Bobby Pfuscher" will be at the TOP
> beating each one of you.

 ANY commercial chess engine can finish above Taylor
Kingston and me, provided it plays enough games.  As
much as your program has improved recently, it still has
a very long way to go before it can compete with the
commercial programs on the market -- one of which is
now approaching the 3000 mark.  In my opinion, your
program, even on Advance level, cannot possibly be
better than 2000 USCF.  For that, you need to keep on
improving the speed, AND at the same time, improve
the other aspects of the program significantly.

 This could be a real bear if, as one poster remarked,
JavaScript is really s-l-o-w.

 In one of my recent games against the lower levels,
I was flipping back and forth between two browsers --
one for GetClub.com and the other to read my email --
and I quickly whipped off a move which won a piece, as
I had seen earlier.  Instantly, I noticed that the computer
had failed to prevent mate-in-one, but I had already
moved, based on my old analysis in which the computer
"had to" prevent the mate.  In sum, even with the
improved speed, your program still has bugs.  There is
no level so low that the computer should be overlooking
(and allowing) mate on the move -- that's only two plys!

 -- help bot
Sanny - 30 Aug 2006 07:09 GMT
>   Sanny, your program has *always* had bugs, and may very well
> continue in the same vein.  Saying that now all such bugs have
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> in simple endings.  This never happenned before.  The speed
> and depth has improved considerably.

My game is for General Public Not RATED PLAYERS. It is just for simple
fun. I do not intend it to compete with Big Players that is out of my
programmers scope.

The game has improved a lot because of your advices.

2 months Back it started beating me and my friends.

2 weeks back it has started beating Average Players.

And soon it will outplay good players.

As far as Taylor Kingston, Bob, Nomorechess, Richardby, Bonsai and
Bobby Pfuscher They will keep beating my program till some thing
miracle is done.

But As far as game is concerned I am now satisfied with the level of
Play it plays.

If you can analyze its games and tell why it is a wrong move may be the
Game can be improved enough to beat the tough players. As the game
beats me and my programmers very easily, we do not understand what
mistake it is doing.

If you find something wrong in its game play let me know it and it will
be corrected.

Bye
Sanny
help bot - 30 Aug 2006 08:03 GMT
> If you can analyze its games and tell why it is a wrong move may be the
> Game can be improved enough to beat the tough players. As the game
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> If you find something wrong in its game play let me know it and it will
> be corrected.

 Unfortunately, programming chess is not my specialty.
What I do know is that the first step in a brute-force type
program is to increase the speed and depth of search.

 A human player can understand concepts which exceed
the limits of any ordinary chess program, and so I would
advise having your team of programmers focus on the one
great strength of computers: tactics.  If you can improve
the speed and depth of search and see *all* short-range
tactics, you will overtake most players on this alone.  As
one famous Grandmaster put it: chess is 99% tactics!

 If you can reach the point where even Taylor Kingston,
for example, can no longer easily outplay your program
tactically, the games will lengthen and humans will have a
greater opportunity to blunder, as we are prone to do.
Exploiting these blunders normally requires no great
technique, just tactical accuracy.  In fact, most humans
will resign after hanging a piece or two.

 In order to improve tactics, the most effective thing
seems to be check-and-capture extensions, where each
time there is a capture or a check, the program steps
out of its normal depth, and looks further, to see what
happens as a result.  As I said before, there are special
techniques used by expert chess programmers to do
this sort of thing in an efficient manner, but I don't know
enough to tell you exactly how it is done.

---------

 Having replayed many games, IMO Taylor Kingston is not
using a computer to decide his moves, so when you write
that somebody like "Bob" or "Pfuscher" is a better player,
you are most likely comparing apples to oranges.  Except
for the one game which Bob lost, I have yet to see a single
move from either of these two players which could not have
been computer generated.  With Pfuscher this could be a
fluke, but with Bob it means he is Bob-by Fischer, with
nothing better to do than play at GetClub!   :)

 -- help bot
David Richerby - 30 Aug 2006 11:07 GMT
> In my opinion, your program, even on Advance level, cannot possibly
> be better than 2000 USCF.  For that, you need to keep on improving
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> This could be a real bear if, as one poster remarked, JavaScript is
> really s-l-o-w.

Sanny's program is written in Java, not Javascript.  We've already
been through this.

Dave.

Signature

David Richerby                           Perforated Tongs (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/      pair of tongs but it's full of holes!

Sanny - 29 Aug 2006 09:24 GMT
Here's the game in case anyone want to Analyze it

[Date "2006.08.28"]
[White "Advance Level"]
[Black "Bobby Pfuscher"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. Nc3 Qa5 7.
Bd3 g6 8. Bd2 Bg7 9. Qf3 Rb8 10. Nb5 Qd8 11. Nxa7 Rxb2 12. Nxc8 Qxc8
13. e5 Nd5 14. c4 Nb4 15. Bxb4 Rxb4 16. Qe3 Qb8 17. f4 O-O 18. O-O-O d6

19. Qe4 dxe5 20. Rhe1 exf4 21. Qxe7 Rb1+ 22. Kd2 Qb2+ 23. Bc2 Qc3+ 24.
Ke2 Qxc2+ 25. Rd2 Rxe1+ 26. Kxe1 Bc3 27. Qd6 Re8+ 28. Kf2 Qxd2+ 29.
Qxd2 Bxd2 30. h3 Ra8 31. a3 Rxa3 32. Ke2 Be3 33. Kf3 f5 34. g4 Ra2 35.
c5 Rf2#

RECORDED GAME: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM3406&game=Chess

Can anyone Analyze this game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Taylor Kingston - 30 Aug 2006 14:13 GMT
> Here's the game in case anyone want to Analyze it
>
> [Date "2006.08.28"]
> [White "Advance Level"]
> [Black "Bobby Pfuscher"]
> [Result "0-1"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6?! bxc6

 Exchanging on c6 is rarely good for White in the Sicilian. It merely
bolsters Black's center while eliminating a well-developed knight on
d4. Sometimes it makes sense, if one wants to advance e4-e5, but
obviously that does not apply here: 6.e5? Qa5+. Correct is the normal
5.Nc3.

6. Nc3 Qa5 7. Bd3 g6 8. Bd2 Bg7 9. Qf3 Rb8

 I don't much like Black's Dragon-cum-Benko-Gambit-style deployment
here. It would seem more logical to have aimed for e7-e5 and d7-d5,
capitalizing on Black's center majority.

10. Nb5 Qd8 11. Nxa7 Rxb2 12. Nxc8 Qxc8 13. e5?

 13.Bc3 was much better, contesting the a1-h8 diagonal, and allowing
the rook to stay on a1, from where it could support an advance of
White's main advantage, the passed a-pawn.

13...Nd5 14. c4? Nb4 15. Bxb4? Rxb4

 The upshot of White's last few moves is to give Black complete
control of the a1-h8 diagonal. Equivalent to bending over and saying
"kick me."

16. Qe3 Qb8 17. f4 O-O 18. O-O-O??

 Sanny's program has always had an unfortunate tendency towards
queenside castling even when it's glaringly wrong. Here, with the heavy
pieces on the open b-file and the Bg7 bearing down, it's equivalent to
handing one's enemy a gun and saying "shoot me." Black now has several
ways to win.

18...d6 19. Qe4 dxe5 20. Rhe1 exf4 21. Qxe7 Rb1+

 Not bad, but it shows this Bobby Pfuscher's not so hot. He missed a
quick mate here starting with 21...Rxc4+.

22. Kd2 Qb2+ 23. Bc2 Qc3+ 24. Ke2 Qxc2+ 25. Rd2 Rxe1+ 26. Kxe1 Bc3 27.
Qd6 Re8+ 28. Kf2 Qxd2+ 29. Qxd2 Bxd2 30. h3 Ra8 31. a3 Rxa3 32. Ke2 Be3
33. Kf3 f5 34. g4 Ra2 35.c5 Rf2#

> RECORDED GAME: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM3406&game=Chess
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny - 31 Aug 2006 07:05 GMT
>   Sanny's program has always had an unfortunate tendency towards
> queenside castling even when it's glaringly wrong. Here, with the heavy
> pieces on the open b-file and the Bg7 bearing down, it's equivalent to
> handing one's enemy a gun and saying "shoot me." Black now has several
> ways to win.

Problem Rectified, Now The Program will not do Queen side Chastling in
such situation.

Play a Game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Sanny - 30 Aug 2006 05:40 GMT
Today "Bobby Pfuscher" beat the Master Level in just 28 moves by
sacrificing its Rook.

Master Level needs 40-50 Moves to be Mated but "Bobby Pfuscher" Check
Mated Master Level in just 28 Moves.

Such type of games are rarely seen.

Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM3460&game=Chess

Here you can see how "Bobby Pfuscher" Sacrificed his Rook to win in
just 28 Moves with Master Level. Something only Bob may do.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
likesforests@yahoo.com - 30 Aug 2006 08:42 GMT
> Such type of games are rarely seen.

Allowing pawn forks is a common blunder, like you did on move 12. If
you want to see a great game watch experts or grandmasters play chess.

> just 28 Moves with Master Level. Something only Bob may do.

I tried to warn you about sacrifices a few weeks ago.  ;-)

 
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