Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsAnalysisComputerChess Politics
ChessKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Chess Forum / Analysis / November 2007



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Castles, mate (Helpmate problem)

Thread view: 
Amarande - 09 Nov 2007 01:30 GMT
This occurred to me today on FICS, when someone needed an example of O-O
mate.

Premise: Starting from the initial position, construct the shortest
possible game so that the final move is a mate delivered by castling.

I could quickly come up with a solution in 9:

1 f4 f5 2 e4 fxe4 3 b3 Kf7 4 Bb2 Kg6 5 Bc4 Kf5 6 h4 Kxf4 7 h5 Kf5 8 h3
Nc6* 9 O-O#

This is easily shortened to 8 by sacrificing the pawn at f5:

1 f4 f5 2 e4 fxe4 3 f5 Kf7 4 h4 Kf6 5 d4 Kxf5 6 Bc4 g6 7 Nh3 Nf6* 8 O-O#

(* A number of other moves are possible also)

and after a short little additional finagling I managed to remove a
couple of wasted moves, producing a 7-move solution:

1 f4 f5 2 e4 fxe4 3 f5 Kf7 4 Nh3 Kf6 5 Bc4 Kxf5 6 d4 g6 7 O-O#

Which looks pretty nice, really :) I'm not sure if a pure-mate version
is possible (we have redundant coverage of g5 here); d4 is needed to
cover e5 (which otherwise takes two moves to guard, as in the 9-mover),
and the Knight can only go to h3 (f3 blocks the mate, and e2 results in
an extra move being wasted to cover g4). It doesn't look that I can
lower this below 7 moves, though someone else might be able to figure
out a way to do so (castling itself involves 4 moves, plus it looks that
White has to move the f-pawn once or twice in order to get it out of the
way ...)

Can it be done in 4 or 5 or 6?
SBD - 09 Nov 2007 07:04 GMT
Sounds interesting, but I don't think a pure mate is possible since
you have nightwatchmen sitting at the homebase; if pieces are unused,
the mate is not pure, or?
David Richerby - 09 Nov 2007 12:32 GMT
> Sounds interesting, but I don't think a pure mate is possible since
> you have nightwatchmen sitting at the homebase; if pieces are
> unused, the mate is not pure, or?

`Pure' just means that each of the king's possible escape squares is
covered by exactly one piece, doesn't it?  It's not a problem if there
are any number of pieces doing nothing, so long as they're not
contributing to the checkmate, either.

Dave.

Signature

David Richerby                             Incredible Flower (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/        flower but it'll blow your mind!

SBD - 10 Nov 2007 19:27 GMT
On Nov 9, 6:32 am, David Richerby <dav...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:
> > Sounds interesting, but I don't think a pure mate is possible since
> > you have nightwatchmen sitting at the homebase; if pieces are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> are any number of pieces doing nothing, so long as they're not
> contributing to the checkmate, either.

That is not true from a problemist's perspective, pure or ideal means
each square is covered only once, and that there are no superfluous
pieces at all. In a model mate, you can have idle king or pawns,
nothing else. There is a magazine devoted to ideal or pure mate
problems: Ideal Mate Review.

I would think this would hold OTB as well since pure as a mating
designation must be aesthetic in nature.

One thing I was playing with was the shortest h# from the start with
long castling. Its pretty neat, I find it hard not because of the
longer time to long castling, but proper coverage of each piece; I
always leave a square open.
Stephan Bird - 09 Nov 2007 09:07 GMT
> This occurred to me today on FICS, when someone needed an example of O-O
> mate.
...

> Can it be done in 4 or 5 or 6?

Well, there are examples of proof games - where the move order is
uniquely determined and *Black* can mate in 6 from the initial position.
See e.g. <URL:http://www.janko.at/Retros/Records/ShortestMate/
Geissler.htm>

1.e4 e5 2.Ke2 Ne7 3.Kf3 Nec6 4.Kg4 f5+ 5.Kxf5 Bc5 6.Qg4 0-0#

Stephan
Signature

Stephan Bird MChem(Hons) AMRSC
Currently in Caernarfon, Wales

David Richerby - 13 Nov 2007 14:12 GMT
> Can it be done in 4 or 5 or 6?

It can't be done in four.  To play 4.O-O#, White must move his e-pawn
or g-pawn, move his bishop, move his knight somewhere other than f3
and somehow lose his f-pawn.  There's no time to move the f-pawn
before it is captured and it must be captured by a black piece, not by
a pawn because the capturing piece must move out of the way, because
White doesn't have time to capture it.  However, capturing the Pf2
with a black piece takes at least three moves.  After these three
moves, 4.O-O cannot give mate (if it's even legal) because the black
king's still on e8.

Similarly, to play 4... O-O#, Black must move his e/g pawn, move his
bishop, move his knight somewhere other than f6 and lose his f-pawn
without moving it.  It takes White at least three moves to capture the
Pf7 but, after those three moves, his king's still on e1, White has a
piece of some kind on f7 and a pawn on f2 so 4... O-O cannot be check.

I think similar reasoning should show that it can't be done in five,
either, but it's more complicated because there's a bit more freedom
in the moves.  A useful trick is likely to be that, if the losing side
captures the winner's unmoved f-pawn on move three, on move four, he
must move the capturing piece out of the way but, on move five, he can
move it back to f2/f7 so any check cannot be mate.  But we also need
to consider cases where the loser captures the f-pawn after it has
been moved or places a piece on his opponent's K3 or KN3, which the
winner captures with his f-pawn to open the file.

I'll let somebody else think about that.

Dave.

Signature

David Richerby                           Hilarious Sushi (TM): it's like a raw
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/      fish but it's a bundle of laughs!


 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2010 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.